Advice regarding tenants who won't pay their rent?
Does anyone have any advice how to get tenants out of a property when they have not paid a single euro of rent?
Desperate to get our property back but it seems that the law favours the tenant even if they haven't paid any rent......
Agent is doing his best but I live overseas and its not easy.
Mhhh ?
Well there are company's around who will remove these type of tenants instantly (for a high fee) They have these in the UK, but I do not know if they exist in Spain.
Drastic I know, but it is what I would do if I had a property with a bunch of Micky takers living there at my expense.
Can you not cut the services ?
Brian
Torn between drastic action and trying to not end up being the one in trouble with the law.
We have tried to cut the electric but he has now gone to them with a copy of his rental contract and kept it on - it seems that you cannot cut of the electric for a tenant (or change locks) if they have a contract. The fact that they have not paid for the contract seems to be completely irrelevant!!
Hugely frustrating - potential landlords BEWARE!! You have NO rights unless you want to take lengthy and expensive court action.
Good morning Desperate and welcome to the Absolute Spain Forum, sorry to read about your tenant troubles. I really hope you can find the solution soon, I would hate to have a house I could not get access to because of non paying tenants.
Just a country girl looking for a new life
Hi, I had the same problem. I was lleft with 15,000 euro of debts. First thing to do is empty all your Spanish bank accounts so no standing orders can be paid for water or electric etc.
Second is get a solicitor, (not a gestor) to start proceedings right now,, dont wait. Get alll yourr bank statemnets , rental contracts, water electric contracts and give to your solicitor. Also get your solicitor to write a strong letter to your agent as well. You solicitors fees might be as high as 2000 euro, but your stress levels just disappear once they put everything in motion.
Last resort offer your tennents 1000 euro to leave , get your agent to handle this but only once he has there rental contract and the keys in hand.
Well good luck with this, dont be afraid to do this they are breaking the law not you.
First move I suggest is to talk. Why are these people not paying rent? It sounds obvious but very few people do it. When you talk you can often know better what options you haveOriginally Posted by Desperate
Your agent cannot do anything!Agent is doing his best but I live overseas and its not easy
Get yourself a lawyer.
Not sure what type of company you are suggesting, Brian... But it sounds illegal to me. So unles Desperate wants to get in trouble I suggest following the law.
Cutting the services is also illegal.Drastic I know, but it is what I would do if I had a property with a bunch of Micky takers living there at my expense.
Can you not cut the services ?
Brian
This isn't irrelevant. They have paid the utility bill so they are in their right to have it. Plus like I said above, the law prohibits you as a landlord to cut utilities.
The length of such court procedures is nowhere near as long as it used to be. And expensive is completely relative. Get a lawyer that charges 100 euros an hour and for 1000 euros you will have your court case. A procurador for a couple of hundred euros represents you in court and listo you win. Where's the "expensive" in that? Isn't it more expensive not to do anything?Hugely frustrating - potential landlords BEWARE!! You have NO rights unless you want to take lengthy and expensive court action.
This is illegal.
Exactly! Go down the legal route. After all if your neighbour accidentaly runs over your dog and kills it, you wouldn't just go out and kill your neighbour?!Second is get a solicitor, (not a gestor) to start proceedings right now,, dont wait. Get alll yourr bank statemnets , rental contracts, water electric contracts and give to your solicitor. Also get your solicitor to write a strong letter to your agent as well. You solicitors fees might be as high as 2000 euro, but your stress levels just disappear once they put everything in motion.
This could backfire, but definitely an original ideaLast resort offer your tennents 1000 euro to leave , get your agent to handle this but only once he has there rental contract and the keys in hand.
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Thanks Greg, for your advice
Interesting, we heard it would cost in excess of 5000 euros to start legal proceedings which could take over 12 months to even get him out of the property.
We have spoken to our tenant. The main problem is that allegedly his employer hasn't paid him since the rental contract started (employer is a "property company" who we now know are very dodgy). On this basis we were lenient and understanding and received a string of emails - (should get paid next week/will free up funds in UK next week/will borrow money from parents etc etc)- the lies go on and on. It has now been over 6 months.
His wife is working and it appears that they have enough money to get drunk every night.
This is actually my parents proprty and as retirees with no income (relying heavily on the non existent rental payment) the legal route is more expensive to us than you may think but sounds like the only option.
Just as a note, up until a few weeks ago the electric was in our name - therefore when we tried to cancel it we have to pay up the bill which he owed us , so he has only being paying for his own electric for a short while and I doubt very much that he will pay his bill.
My parents are kind, respectable people who have been very sympathetic to the tenant and his family but it appears that he is a scumbag who has been given plenty of advice about what his "rights" are. The stress is taking the toll on their health which is why I am seeking any advice outside the legal route just to get this problem solved but looks like the only way.
start repairs to the property cut the water electric as a precaution for health safety of workers dump a load of smelly manure on the lawn which is there for the garden and any other annoying things you can come up with
You welcome!
5000€ just to START? Impossible. Wrong lawyer, get a new one! Preferrably Spanish!!Interesting, we heard it would cost in excess of 5000 euros to start legal proceedings which could take over 12 months to even get him out of the property.
12 months. It used to take so long and in some cases longer. But this has now been drastically reduced.
He sounds like a problem. Obviously this is not about you having charged too much rent for what the place is but much more a blatant attempt to live for free.We have spoken to our tenant. The main problem is that allegedly his employer hasn't paid him since the rental contract started (employer is a "property company" who we now know are very dodgy). On this basis we were lenient and understanding and received a string of emails - (should get paid next week/will free up funds in UK next week/will borrow money from parents etc etc)- the lies go on and on. It has now been over 6 months.
His wife is working and it appears that they have enough money to get drunk every night.
No more talking necessary in that case. Get your lawyer to draft the first official notification and send the tenant a registered burofax with acuse de recibo (check the Spain Guide for info)
Yes your conclusion is right. This is most probably the absolutely only way forward. The tenant doesn't sounds like you can negotiate or talk with....This is actually my parents proprty and as retirees with no income (relying heavily on the non existent rental payment) the legal route is more expensive to us than you may think but sounds like the only option.
If they leave an electric bill, you will be liable for it so get those court proceedings started ASAP.Just as a note, up until a few weeks ago the electric was in our name - therefore when we tried to cancel it we have to pay up the bill which he owed us , so he has only being paying for his own electric for a short while and I doubt very much that he will pay his bill.
I'm sorry to hear this. Tell them to be patient and put the problem in the hands of a professional and understanding Spanish lawyer.My parents are kind, respectable people who have been very sympathetic to the tenant and his family but it appears that he is a scumbag who has been given plenty of advice about what his "rights" are. The stress is taking the toll on their health which is why I am seeking any advice outside the legal route just to get this problem solved but looks like the only way.
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Very good advice, Greg. My lawyer and I recently had published an article on this very subject:
RENT REPAIRS
The shortage of mortgages has created a dramatic slowdown in the real estate buying and selling market. Buyers are denied access to credit which until recently was waved through with few checks being made. This is fuelling demand for rental properties; not just for holiday purposes.
For those letting properties this situation has improved their potential. There is a growing demand for properties at affordable prices; properties that three years ago would have been impossible or difficult to let.
Ironically this market has not reached its potential due to anachronistic legislation and judicial inertia in Spain’s legal system. The protection of banking interests must also carry much of the responsibility.
In Spain current legislation weighs heavily in favour of the tenant, not the property owner. For instance any contract longer than a year implies that the tenant can stay up to five years if he or she wants to.
UNSCRUPULOUS TENANTS
Inspired by concerns for social justice this may have been reasonable in the past; it gave security to tenants but was hardly in the interests of property owners. Problems arise when unscrupulous tenants, often with professional zeal, take advantage of judicial inertia; settling into property and then decide to stop paying the agreed rent.
The dilemma for the property owner is that he or she cannot summarily evict squatters. They will need to hire a solicitor and file an eviction claim.
Cutting access to utilities; water and electricity is not the answer though it has been known to work. To do so makes the property owner vulnerable for this can be construed as a crime of coercion. No responsible solicitor will ever advise that course of action.
A TENANTS PROTECTION RACKETThere are occasions when eviction claims can be satisfied reasonably quickly, as in in the City of Alicante where the average procedure takes four months. However in Orihuela and authorities like it you can be stuck with irresponsible tenants withholding rent for up to a year.
With this lack of legal protection and security no wonder home owners prefer to take their properties off the rental market. “It is a well intentioned social initiative that has been turned into a tenant’s protection racket.” Says Michael McLaughlin of southerncomfit.com.
It doesn’t get any better for property owners. When the judicial procedure is complete and unscrupulous tenants finally abandon the property it will be virtually impossible to recover unpaid rent or put repairs right as tenants rarely have assets to pursue. As a consequence the housing crisis becomes more acute.
TOUGH TENANT REFERENCES
For both owners and tenants the problem is further aggravated as landlords become more demanding when taking up tenant references. Commonplace is not only to ask for deposits and payroll, but to even require bank guarantees.
In effect genuine tenants are paying the price of a minority who have abused obsolete housing legislation made worse by the inefficiency and inertia of the Spanish legal system.
Solicitors know, especially those with long experience in real estate matters, that some measures should be taken by the Spanish government to alleviate matters. First to go should be the mindset that all tenants are poor and all landlords rich.
That legislation should primarily protect tenants belongs to the agriculture past of Spain. Social change has led to tenants who are often better placed financially than are the property owners. They choose to rent simply as a means of maintaining job, social or educational mobility.
TENANT CHECKS, NOT BOUNCED CHEQUES
Once outdated ideas that inspired current legislation are changed we can move to a more socially equitable system. The first should be the creation of a national or European public registry in which any person having abused a tenancy agreement should be filed just as it would if they had a poor credit history. Legitimate owners would then be able to check the lease records of potential tenants
Such legislation would also benefit genuine tenants as property owners relax requirements for proof of reputation and good intent
Complementary to such legislation the setting up of fast track civil courts in which evictions and related judgements take place in weeks rather than up to a year. Each month’s delay is a month’s rent stolen from the property owners. It cannot be in anyone’s interest that legislation favours thieves. Inertia and justice are never compatible.
TENANTS ON TOP?
A third measure might be a national fund as with vehicle insurance; a safety net contributed to by tenancy and landlord to compensate owners in the case of extreme damage to their property caused by insolvent tenants.
Improving the rental market is essential not merely for reasons of social justice but also for sensible economic reasons. A modern economy in a global world demands mobility of labour. Such social change often makes property purchase less attractive for many. Sometimes it is simply better to rent.
To do so offers flexibility; a more dynamic and modern solution to the economy. If the rental market is stagnant, if empty properties proliferate because of landlords reluctance to rent, despite demand,. the interests of both tenants and owners will be damaged.
CORRUPTION BEHIND ‘SOCIAL JUSTICE’ Most will wonder why governments fail to adopt such practical measures. The reason has little to do with any desire to protect tenants from unscrupulous landlords. It is because a healthy rental market is in direct competition to the building industry, the mortgage industry; the banks and lending houses.
Clearly it is in the interests of many buyers to rent rather than buy; equally clearly it is not in the interests of the banks. A good tenant has all the benefits of ownership without the handicaps.
With more socially responsible legislation the only losers will be the banks and lending houses. The rental market undermines it so paradoxically a system put in place to protect the vulnerable is being abused to protect the powerful.
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